As many of you may have already read, this year was my first DEFCON, so perhaps my views are swayed because I'm not a hardcore DEFCONian/DEFCONite (what is the correct term?). Anyways, I'm going to do more than rag on DEFCON here, but first let me rag on DEFCON.
Problem #1 was with badges. I showed up at BlackHat at 7:45 and picked up my badge in about 15 minutes. Quick and easy. With DEFCON I nearly fell asleep standing in line... only to find out that I was getting a temporary badge that I would have to return to swap out if I wanted the board designed by Kingpin. Sounds harmless enough, but it took over 2 hours to get my final badge. Maybe some people moved faster, but I bet a lot of people had even longer wait times. I'm attending a three day con, of which I'm already losing a day to travel and I've just lost another 1/4 day just getting my badge. Pick it up early you say? That's all fine and dandy, except that 'early' conflicted with a little something called BlackHat.
The next problem I had was the odor in Tracks 2 & 4... now maybe this was a one-time thing, but it really ruined my first DEFCON experience. Everything I had intended to see was either in track 2 or track 4, and I had to skip the talks because the stench in the room was awful. I realize that this was more the fault of the Riviera, but really now... it was just horrid. I ended up seeing speakers that I didn't want to see, or had never heard of. Which is cool... first time, unknown speakers sometimes have cool things to say. Sometimes, however, they don't.
Which brings me to my next point... the quality of the talks. Granted, most of the talks I intended to see where great (from what I heard / read) but schedule conflicts and that awful, awful odor kept me away. The talks I did see were primarily low quality, with inaccurate/incorrect information and someone who didn't know how to present, so they mumbled or talked very quietly. This was actually a point that I heard time and time again as I spoke with other attendees. Everyone seemed to feel that a number of the talks sucked. In the spirit of truthiness, if everyone said the talks sucked… they sucked. Look it up on Wikipedia.
Now, by this point I'm sure I'm being called all sorts of names or people are thinking, 'he just doesn't get the point of DEFCON, that it's representative of the underground, of the scene.' I get doing something because it's part of the scene... but some value would be cool. I spent most of my formative years on BBSes, Newsgoups and IRC and the time not spent there was spent at punk shows in the middle of a mosh pit. My parents didn’t get it, but there was value.
Also, don't get me wrong... as I've mentioned there are a number of talks that I really wanted to see, so maybe this really was just due to a bad first impression. Now... I said I wouldn't fully rag on DEFCON and I'm not going to... if you take away the talks, smells, and registration... DEFCON was awesome. Something tells me I've lost a lot of people by this point, and they didn't read that last line. No problem… this will be our little secret.
DEFCON was exactly what I wanted from a Social Scene... The Content Room and CTF were both a lot of fun, the vendor area was small enough to not be annoying and had some really cool stuff in it... I still haven't unpacked my 'H4ck3rs are People Too' DVD but I'm really looking forward to it. The same goes for the get togethers. The Freakshow Party was a blast, and again I met some great people. The Hardware Hacking village was great as well, and many thanks to the people that helped with soldering the mini-USB onto my badge.
So to sum up… registration, stench, and talks sucked; social scene was awesome. If things don’t work out in Security Research, perhaps I’ll become a social engineer. I don’t know if I’d be good at it, but I got you to read this post. ?
I am really looking forward to attending DEFCON next year... and my goal here was to provide some feedback that can hopefully improve the quality of the CON.
I was shooting for a five part write-up, and this is #3, which means at least two more blog posts... The 5th post, as scheduled right now, will actually be a discussion on ways to improve the cons... but then again I've never ran one... I'm simply another attendee. I don’t know if that makes me more or less qualified to speak up.
Comments (7)
What was that smell? Why can I not find anyone online with an answer or even a guess? Am I right that it was a DEFCON Scavenger Hunt newbie who fell into the Riviera ventilation shaft? Sure smelled like death. Please someone provide a link to the smell mystery!
Posted by Jay Graver | August 14, 2008 7:55 PM
Posted on August 14, 2008 19:55
Couldn't agree more
Posted by Thierry Zoller | August 15, 2008 2:48 AM
Posted on August 15, 2008 02:48
Not trying to defend Defcon or rag Black Hat, but the two are pretty different experiences, and one can definitely color the other because they're back-to-back.
Black Hat is part of the paid speaker circuit, while Defcon is not. Defcon tends to have more first-time speakers. Hell, Black Hat has a keynote; Defcon has nothing like that. I think that's the real difference. I like the idea of Shmoocon continuing the small-is-good tradition of a con like this, but allowing/encouraging the audience to interrupt if a speaker gets something wrong or says something you don't agree with. But yes, one has to come to Defcon expecting less-strong speakers since the info-sharing is valued higher than quality presence, I guess.
The registration lines...no idea about that. I was there Thursday morning and the line stretched from between the main ballrooms back out to the chill-out room. We waited quite some time for the doors to open. After that, I never really saw many lines, but I also wasn't up early enough to notice. :) Once the lines got moving Thursday, they were swift as hell. Walked up, handed over the cash, got my package, done.
Posted by LonerVamp | August 15, 2008 1:50 PM
Posted on August 15, 2008 13:50
For the cost difference of DEFCON and Black Hat, I can deal with the hassle of a FEW lines at the former for the content overlap.
Though I never had to wait in line for either my temp nor my real one. Twitter helped tremendously there.
The speakers could use some coaching, but many of them were very good. Did you go to Paul Craig's kiosk talk? Jay Beale's Middler talk?
The biggest problem with DEFCON was crowd management. Most of the problems I saw didn't have to happen.
Posted by robdew | August 17, 2008 1:29 PM
Posted on August 17, 2008 13:29
so, DEFCON (the entire conference) sucks...
because? the riviera apparently had a strange smell in parts of it... and you spent a long time getting your badge...
and...
the quality of the talks sucked, oh, but they apparently didn't "Granted, most of the talks I intended to see where great (from what I heard / read)". but later you said that you heard that the talks sucked...
what confuses me is that about half of the talks were the same talks as BH...
if you didn't need a shiny joe grand badge your total time would have been 15 minutes... (i hope you are actually going to hack that badge instead of just admire it).
the goal of your post was to improve the quality of DC? really? did you mention the bad talks you saw, or just a 'the talks sucked, i heard'?
my main DC complaint... that it seems a third of the conference is made up of folks from BH, most of which should probably stay home.
why would you return if it sucked? do you buy albums from artists you don't like as well?
Posted by nothin | August 18, 2008 8:35 AM
Posted on August 18, 2008 08:35
BTW, if you did show up early, you likely would have had to wait until the next day to get your geek badge since they ran out of them.
The smell is always present in Riviera, and I am sure it is a variant of Disco-Ass (can I say that?) eminating from the dancers that apparently wiggle it in various parts of the small building.
I agree with your general points wrt where DefCon needs improvement... I think the talks quality should be weighed against the requirement that the speakers be actively drinking.... one thing that u missed is that there is a large number of ppl like 'nothin' (above) who think that it makes ultimate sense to be generally macho, exclusive, unhelpful and nasty to other people.... it doesn't. Or that it is a requisite component to being skilled..... it isn't.
Thanks for the post ... look forward to other installments.
Posted by Jon | August 22, 2008 9:00 PM
Posted on August 22, 2008 21:00
@robdew
I did not see either of those talks.
@Jon
Thanks for the comments...
As for the smell, it wasn't the smell you would expect in a room of geeks... It was something special.
Posted by Tyler Reguly | August 22, 2008 9:06 PM
Posted on August 22, 2008 21:06